Seeking Joy in the Psalms

Kay >> Welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women podcast and video. I’m Kay Daigle your host today. And I am joined by Claudia McGuire. Welcome, Claudia. I’m glad you were able to join me today.

Claudia >> Me too.

Kay >> Claudia and I attended Dallas Seminary together, and it’s getting to be a long time since that happened. I was thinking about it’s being a long time. That’s where we first met, I think.

She has served on our BOW ministry team since its inception, and she brings a wealth of experience and knowledge in life and in ministry to our conversation. But you can read more about her on her bio on our website at BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org.

Our topic today is Seeking Joy in the Psalms. Before we start, I want to make it clear that we recorded this session in October weeks ago from when it drops. So we don’t know what happened in the election, but we guess that about half of the people in the country are upset this morning as this particular episode goes online.

Of course, that assumes that the results are in and we have no idea when that will actually happen. But as we think about today, the day after the election, and even ongoing, it’s important just to remember that joy is an important quality for Christians. Whether there’s disappointment, whether there’s fear—no matter what it is—God wants us to have joy instead. And joy is a fruit of the Spirit.

So it is something we all should be exhibiting because we are believers and the Holy Spirit lives within us. So we should want to seek joy. That’s the reason we decided to have this particular episode on Seeking Joy in the Psalms. I have found that the Psalms are a great place if you don’t feel that you are joyful, If you’re struggling, or if you’re unhappy in any situation. It may have nothing to do with an election. But whatever it is, whatever your circumstances are, the Psalms are a great place to go.

So the big question is how do we as Christians handle bad news in general? Grief? hard times? whatever it is? How do we as God’s people of faith deal with those things? And how do we exhibit joy in the midst of that?

So the Psalms are going to tell us to put our joy in the Lord.

Claudia’s going to start us out.

Claudia, what Psalm has really been meaningful to you when you’ve dealt with things that are hard, things that your circumstances, that you’re struggling in? Is there a certain psalm that you go to?

Claudia >> Yes, especially for the past two years. I think I have one that I have gone to over and over. I find that sometimes I’ll wake up in the middle of the night and I just start saying it to bring peace into my sleep, into my room and to my head. But the 23rd Psalm is one that I’ve just really concentrated on for a couple of years.

And a little background on that is just that I’ve had five years of just really hard in my life, hard things for me and my family. This past season, this past year has brought its own additional hard things. I just realized as I’ve read through the Psalms and read through the Bible, which is just such a comfort to me, just the word comforts my heart in so many ways.

But I realized that, you know, we can’t choose our method of pain or suffering or even challenges in this world, in this life. The Bible informs us that in this world we will have trouble, but we’re supposed to take heart. The good news is that Jesus has overcome the world. That’s a good thing in the midst of our struggles, or in the midst of our circumstances that we might be in.

But it’s also good news that he walks with us through it. He says he’ll never abandon us, and I’ve had to just cling. I have had times where—and still do—where I just have to cling to the truth that God is with me. No matter how it feels, he’s with me.

And so I love Psalm 23 because it’s both about the here and now, the present that we’re experiencing, and it’s also about the future. There’s just comfort throughout it if you will just dive into it. And that’s what’s really ministered to me.

Kay >> Are there specific verses in there that you would cling to in particular times or just overall that psalm?,

Claudia >> It’s really the whole psalm. And so I’m just going to kind of walk through it, if that’s okay, because I feel like by going through it kind of verse by verse, that’s what has calmed my spirit and restored my joy and filled my cup. So that’s where I want to go today.

The thing about this Psalm is, as with many of the Psalms, David wrote it, and he was fleeing, he was talking and writing about a time where he was really wandering in the wilderness and even going to some of Israel’s enemies at that time to escape from Saul, who is the current king.

So Saul was the king, but David had been anointed, and yet Saul wasn’t cooperating in that at all. Saul was vengeful; he was jealous; he was out for David, and so David’s running. And just like today, Saul started great. He started with great intentions—I think a great vision for Israel, for his people, I think a great desire to follow God.

But he didn’t end so well. And as true as that was thousands of years ago, it’s true today—many of our leaders start well. They have good intentions, but it ends badly. Whether that’s due to ego or pride or just getting off on a different path that wasn’t really the path God intended for them. So let’s just dive in.

Okay, the Psalm starts: “The Lord is my shepherd.” We all know that, right? Most of us have heard this psalm over and over. Sometimes, though familiarity makes us forget how important the words are. So I just want to look at those words. Jesus refers to himself throughout the New Testament as a good shepherd, right? So knowing that that he specifically says, I care for my sheep, right?

He’s the good shepherd. David is acknowledging it. Jesus said, “I’m the good shepherd. I feed you, I guide you, I’m going to sustain you. I’m going to shield you”—Just what shepherds do. So “the Lord is my shepherd.” That’s an affirmation that we just need to sometimes claim when we’re like, “I don’t have to find my way out of this”

“The Lord is my shepherd.” I can follow him, you know?

And the next verse makes it difficult right away. “I shall not want.” Really? “The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want.” Sometimes we just need to sit in those difficult words that we hear, because sometimes I want a different option. I want out. I want things to change.

But I also know that even if I’m struggling in my wants, that Jesus is there, that he knows the Lord knows what I need and he knows what I want. Right? He knows what I want. And when I pray, I can bring that to him. I can just like Jesus in the garden, “not my will, but yours.” I’m not comparing myself to Jesus but I think that was Jesus in his greatest act of, or part of humanity, saying, I don’t really want to do this God if there’s another way. But I know your way is the best and I’m committed to it.

So as my shepherd, he knows how to provide for me. He knows exactly what it is that I need and what I want. And I just need to trust in that provision. Right? I just need to trust in it.

The next verse says “he lets me lie down in green pastures and he leads me beside the still and quiet waters.” Just saying that makes me feel better. I’m a water person and thinking about a meadow and water together is like your perfect kind of picture. It’s a great word picture. God is a God of peace for Christ followers. He’s not a God of confusion. He says that he will bring peace to us. So there can be peace in the middle of the mess that we’re in.

There can be that peace that flows like a river, even though the storms are raging all around us, we can be right there. I wanted to quote, someone once wrote this, We don’t have to figure out where the green pastures and the quiet and still waters are. We just need to keep our eyes on the shepherd.

We don’t have to fix it, and we don’t have to be all anxious about how am I going to get out of this? How am I going to change this? We just need to know where the shepherd is and just run to him and say, I cannot do this, but you are my good shepherd and I’m going to follow you and I’m going to trust you in the middle of this unknown, this unknown place.

So I love that. I love that he leads us there. And like I said, it’s just a picture that speaks to my heart. And I think all of us can find that thing in the Psalm or in the word that we can just return to again and again when those feelings start to flood over us again and we become anxious or we’re like, this is never going to end. So just find that place of peace with him and let him lead us to that quiet still waters.

The next verse tells us that he refreshes and restores our soul or our life, basically. He restores us. He leads us in the paths of righteousness for his namesake. And there’s a couple of things I just love about this.

Again, I don’t have to pretend that I’m doing wonderfully when I come before God in prayer. When I seek his face, when I seek his joy, when I seek his answer, it’s okay that I am feeling extremely unprepared for what life has dealt me or what’s come my way. It’s not that I’m handling things so well, Lord, I need you to come in and fill me up. And I think that’s when I really receive mercy.

And I receive his grace is when I can just follow his path, follow him and know that he’s there regardless again of how that feels and what I think ’cause our emotions and our thoughts can kind of take us down those paths that we don’t want to be in. So the other thing about that particular verse that “he leads me in paths of righteousness for his name sake” that’s touched me as I’ve thought about it, it’s not for me. I do receive the benefits of his mercy and his grace, but it says he’s doing this for his own glory, for his name’s sake.

And I can take incredible joy in that—that whatever I’m going for or whatever I’m going through, God has a stake in it. I might be his ambassador, as you were just referring to out in this world, to reflect joy to reflect the fruits of the spirit, to act within the fruits of the spirit. But God’s got a stake in this.

It’s His glory. It’s not for my glory. And we know bad things happen when you start taking the glory for your life. The good things.

Kay >> That’s true. That’s true.

Claudia >> So receiving help from God really again puts our focus on him because it’s for his name’s sake. And I can rest in that, like, “Okay, God, you’re in this. It is about you. You’ve got a plan you’re going to bring me through. Just help me to put my fears and my emotions aside.”

Kay >> Right.

Claudia >> Right in your hands. Right? And just know that you’re there. Know it.

Again, we see God moving in a way that I think is very comforting because the next verses say, “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me,” and they console me. And even though we do follow the shepherd we might have to go through valleys, right? I mean, we do. Again, the Bible says we’re going to have problems. We might feel like we are walking in the valley of the shadow of death.

And two things there is we’re walking through it. David’s not stuck there. He’s walking through it with his shepherd. And it’s the shadow of the valley of death. It’s not death. Christ has conquered death. It’s the shadow of it. Which means we still might feel some fear. We know it’s not a good situation. We know we’re in a place that makes us want to run away from it. But God doesn’t take away that threat necessarily. Again, he walks with us through it, and that’s a good thing. That’s a good thing.

Kay >> Right.

Claudia >> Yeah. He comforts us and he consoles us even when life might feel like death. And I don’t think I know anybody right now that isn’t going through something difficult. There’s a lot of heartache, a lot of hard things that are happening in people’s lives right now.

And you might be at a place that you’re blaming God, but God is still standing there with his hands and his arms open to you, and he wants you to come to him and let him be your good shepherd.

I think what also happens sometimes is we forget this next verse that says, “You prepare a table for me, you prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.” Wow. I haven’t even really given that much thought until this last year that in the middle of the mess, God’s already prepared this table for me in the middle and in the presence of my enemies.

And when I pray through this, it’s like, Okay, what is my enemy right now? What is my enemy? It’s not always a who, although there’s many times a who behind it. But is it fear? Is it illness? Is it divorce? Is it panic? What is it that’s driving your feelings? And what is it that is causing you to feel like you’re surrounded by enemies?

But take heart again. God’s prepared a table in the midst of those enemies. And so we have the choice of either sitting down with God, trusting him, okay, this is weird, because who does that? God does that. Nobody else prepares a table in the midst of their enemies that I’m aware of. And we can just sit down and enjoy the presence of God in the midst of that and just say, I don’t like this, but I know, I am 100% sure, that you are with me and you’re going to walk through this with me.

So anyway, you can either sit down, you can praise God, thank Him for bringing you to this place, or you can worry. And I believe that the chronic worrying is what renders us ineffective. And that’s what the enemy wants.

Kay >> Right.

Claudia >> That enemy wants you to be ineffective, to not be able to give God the glory, to not be able to sense the presence of the Lord with you. And God says, I’m right here. I’m right here. You’ve anointed and refreshed my head with oil and my cup overflows. I am a glass half empty person. And when I read that my cup overflows, I’m just like, Okay, help me feel that. Help me feel that. Because it’s hard to feel.

But this is true, right? God’s here for you. And wherever we might find ourselves, in whatever mess, whatever trial, whatever set of awful circumstances, this verse tells me, Hey, I’m set apart for God. I’m anointed. And He has a purpose for my life. And the reminder to me that there is this anointing, this oil that refreshes me and causes my cup of gratefulness and praise to just overflow, again brings me back to truth.

This might be the reality of what I’m experiencing, but the truth is God refreshes me and he makes my cup overflow. I just need to soak in that joy for just a little bit. That’s amazing.

And David ends this psalm with “Surely goodness and mercy and unfailing love will follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell in the house and in the presence of the Lord forever.”

David has taken this full circle. He started out with the Lord, the Lord is my shepherd, and he talks about I and me and you. They comes back again to “I’m going to be in the house of the Lord forever.” It’s about the Lord. He runs through this Psalm along with David. So it’s even a picture of the Lord walking with us, even through this Psalm.

So David’s cup is full at this point, and he is trusting God for His mercy and his presence and his provision to continue to be with him both in his present situation, in the here and now, but also he looks forward that forever, through eternity, I’m in the presence of the Lord. I always am. I am and I am and I am. And I will be. It’s a continuous thing.

And I love that even though we know David had more troubles (They weren’t over.) that David got to a place of rest and a place where he was full of the Lord’s goodness and he could rest in that. And that’s really what brings my joy to the surface that causes that overflow.

It’s like if it wasn’t for God or his presence with me, I could not be standing. I’m not sure I’d be speaking. I think I would be many times a puddle of jello on the floor, to be honest. But because of God that’s where my hope is. He’s my good shepherd and I’m with him now and I’ll be with him forever.

And so that Psalm has impacted and continues to impact my life. But I think one of the things I just want to stress, though, is don’t think that you’re so familiar with something that you gloss over it, whether that’s a psalm or some other scripture. It’s a living word. It’s alive. It has new messages and new emphasis. It has new meaning for your life wherever you are and whatever you’re going through.

Kay >> Yeah. It’s those very things you’re going through that brings out those nuances that you had not thought of as you read through there and as you dwell on the words and the promises that you get in there. That’s one of my favorites psalms as well.

Claudia >> I love it.

Kay >> I do, too. I remember my mother-in-law was in the hospital. She was really, really sick. I think we thought she was going to pass away at that point. And I read her that psalm and she just asked me to keep reading it to her just over and over. I wasn’t in there very long, so it wasn’t many times, but it really was very meaningful to her. But I’ve always loved it for myself, which is why I suggested that I read it to her.

Well, my story about the Psalms in general sort of starts (and I’ve got a longer story), but this is just over the last couple of years. Over the last couple of years, I’ve actually been in dread and fear of this election. Just what if, what if this, what if that and all those things. And as I’ve watched the country be so divided and people be so angry at each other, it’s just been on my mind a whole lot.

And because I realized that I was really not very joyful because this was weighing on me so much.

Claudia >> Yeah.

Kay >> A couple of years ago, I turned to the Psalms and I decided that I should be reading the Psalms because they are I think for me, a real answer and seeking joy in my life when I’m concerned about something, when something’s going on that concerns me.

And so what I did was I went through the Psalms over the course of a year two or three times. I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I had a plan and I went through them according to this plan and it was more than one psalm a day. I actually did that for two years, I think.

And then this year I decided I needed to slow down and just read one psalm every day. And I really have to say that it really, really made a difference. It just made a difference because it took my focus off of these things that I was worrying about and I was turning my focus on God and how great he was. That was the reason I knew I needed to go to the Psalms, because the Psalms are so full of the praise of the Lord just over and over telling us who he is and what he does for us.

And they’re just very powerful for your life. As you have just really attested to. And so as I went through them, I prayed something out of each psalm every day. I got one of those Bibles that has the text of the Psalms on one page and then a page to write. And so each time I went through it, I would pray something else and just write it down. God would bring different things each time I went through the Psalms, as far as that psalm was concerned.

And so I was praying. I was asking God that I would trust him the way that the psalmist did. I prayed through various specific things depending on what was going on in my life that day. And a couple of months ago, as I was reading my one psalm for the day that I’m doing this year, I was really praying about being joyful because I knew I need to be joyful. I don’t need to be weighed down by things that could happen that haven’t even happened, number one. But also just letting the things of the world have more power over me than the Lord. My joy needed to be in the Lord. And I knew that. But I had been praying and praying about it, and the Lord knew that.

And one day he just took it all away. All of the fear, all of the worry, all of the anxiety, it was just gone. And I was so joyful. At first, I didn’t know if this is going to last, and it has. It has not returned. I have been joyful. Even my husband said I had just generally been more joyful. And I know that as we focus on the Lord, that we begin to have more joy.

But there are times when he can just take it away. But remember, I had prayed through them for two-and-a half years before this happened. So it’s not like he necessarily going to take those fears and concerns away overnight. But the more we focus on them, the more I believe he can give us joy in the middle of things.

I’m really thankful. It was a gift. It was a gift God gave me. And every day I thank him for that gift, that joy, and that peace that he’s given me.

Claudia >> Wow.

Kay >> But in times like these, one psalm that I can just sort of give you as an example of how the Psalms have helped me. As I was praying about and thinking about which one I might look at, I decided we might look at Psalm 27, which is also a psalm of David. We’ll just go it through it quickly as well.

“The Lord is my light and my salvation. I fear no one. The Lord protects my life. I’m afraid of no one.” Now I’m reading this out of the NET Bible, but for this particular verse I really like the CSB, which says “Whom should I fear?” “Whom should I dread?” And those are questions that really got to me when I was fearing things or dreading the future or what might happen.

There’s no one because God who protects my life. God is my light and my salvation. There is nothing to fear. There is nothing that I should be dreading because God is in control of those things. He is my light, my salvation. I can get joy in him instead of focusing on those things. I shouldn’t be dreading them.

In verse two, David talks about “When evil men attack me to devour my flesh, when my adversaries and enemies attack me, they stumble and fall.” So here he’s just stating that God had protected him already, that his enemies would fall, that he would when these battles that he had with his enemies.

In verse three, “Even when an army is deployed against me, I do not fear. Even when war is imminent, I remain confident.” So no matter what I can imagine in my mind of what was happening, I shouldn’t be afraid. I should be confident. I should be whether civil war, maybe civil war could come to our country, I should be confident that God has me. It doesn’t mean I will be protected from danger at all times, but it certainly means that he holds my future and I don’t need to be afraid.

Then in verse four he says, “I have asked the Lord for one thing — this is what I desire! I want to live in the Lord’s house all the days of my life, so I can gaze at the splendor of the Lord and contemplate in his temple.” I think that that’s what the Psalms did to me. It gave me a place to contemplate God’s greatness and God’s beauty. That each day I was coming to it and that’s what I was gazing on instead of what was going on around me. And that gave me joy. It gave me joy.

And then verses five and six, “He will surely give me shelter in the day of danger; he will hide me in his home. He will place me on an inaccessible rocky summit. Now I will triumph over my enemies who surround me. I will offer sacrifices in his dwelling place and shout for joy. I will sing praises to the Lord.”

And really back to what you were talking about — What is your enemy? — fear and dread were my enemies. They were my enemies. But God has given me victory over those enemies. And so I shout now for joy. I offer thanks to him and joy to him. I will sing praises to the Lord just as David did. So I love that.

Then in verse seven, “Hear me, O Lord, when I cry out. Have mercy on me and answer me. My heart tells me to pray to you, and I do pray to you, O Lord.” And so David is just talking about how God draws us to prayer, how he’s telling us to seek him in the midst of whatever is going on.

And as both of us are talking about, one of the ways we do that is going to the Word and finding places that he can speak to us really personally through.

The line that says — “And I do pray to you, O Lord” — the CSB says here, “Seek his face. Lord, I will seek your face.” When God turns his face toward people he is pleased with them. He turns to us in grace. It’s sort of a metaphor for God turning to us in grace and delighting in us. And acknowledging that God has been our helper. God has, as David says, the one who cares for him.

He goes on to say — “Do not reject me. Do not push your servant away in anger. You are my deliverer.” And some of the translations say, you are my helper. And when it says, “Do not reject me,” that’s do not hide your face from me, literally. So it’s that same idea of continue looking at me with grace, continue giving me your joy, continue caring for me.

“Do not forsake or abandon me, O God who vindicates me. Even if my father and mother abandoned me, the Lord would take me in.”

And I was thinking about it might be that somebody watching or listening to us might think Wow, do I have to worry about God abandoning me or God forsaking me? And no you don’t. The Psalms are not God speaking to you and telling you that this is what he might do. The Psalms are the heartfelt prayers of God’s people. And sometimes we feel like God might abandon us or we feel like God has abandoned this, or we feel like God was going to put us away in his anger because we’ve sinned and we realize how this has affected our relationship with the Lord.

These aren’t things we should be concerned about but this shows us that when we pray to God, we can tell him how we really feel because he knows anyway. If we feel like he’s abandoned us, it’s okay to say, “God don’t abandon me. I feel abandoned here.” If we’re struggling, we need to tell God, “I’m struggling here to even hear your voice,” and it’s okay to do that.

I’m sure that’s a lot of what you dealt with these last five years.

Claudia >> Yes.

Kay >> Yeah.

So a lot of times our circumstances, a lot of times it’s just our feelings and that’s okay. Those are written down in the Psalms for us and that’s one of the reasons that the Psalms are so precious to help us.

Then down in verse eleven — “Teach me how you want me to live, Lord; lead me along a level path because of those who wait to ambush me. Do not turn me over to my enemies, for false witnesses who want to destroy me testify against me.”

David was in a hard place. He was in a hard place. And yet he goes on to say in 13 and 14. “Where would I be if I did not believe I would experience the Lord’s favor in the land of the living? Rely on the Lord! Be strong and confident! Rely on the Lord!”

He calls us to do the same thing. Rely on the Lord because we believe that we will experience his favor in the land of the living. It doesn’t mean that the danger will go away. It doesn’t mean that the circumstances would change. But God can give us favor, just like he took my dread and fear and gave me joy. He shows his favor to us. And we can trust him.

So wherever we are, whatever we’re going through, I think it’s so helpful for us to seek joy. Psalms are such a good place to be able to do that because we see who God is. We see how we can pour out our hearts to him when we see that he wants to give us joy in him, not in what’s going on.

We don’t have to be joyful about what’s going on around us. Our joy is in him, and that’s what we need to see instead of trusting in any person or if things would just change I can have joy. We have to put our trust in God.

Do you want to add anything to that, Claudia?

Claudia >> I think you touched on something about that joy and how God answers our prayers. And you said you prayed those psalms for two years, two-and-a-half years before you finally felt like, okay, I can lay this aside now. God’s in this, and he’s got me.

And I feel like sometimes we can get into a place where we look, again, it’s taking our eyes off the one and look around at friends or whatever and think, gosh, they don’t seem to have any problems or they don’t seem to be struggling at all or, you know, whatever that might be. And I would say that God doesn’t always answer our prayers the same way. We kind of want oh, I want their answer. I want their answer. That’s what I want.

But going back to I shall not want, God knows how to answer me. He’s a personal God. He’s going to answer and speak to me in a way that he doesn’t speak to you. I look at the past, I look biblically, I look in history and I think, I’ve never gone out and caught a fish and found money in its mouth when I needed money or when I was in a financial bind. I’ve never gotten swallowed by a whale when I was disobedient. Thank you, Lord.

It doesn’t mean I won’t be someday, but God deals with us as a personal God. And therefore, I shall not want, I should not want what my neighbor has. However, God answered that prayer for them, it’s going to be different for me because God knows what I need. And even in that aspect of being able to cooperate with the Spirit moving, cooperating with God, is important.

And you touched on that as you read through the Psalms you just knew, this is where I need to be. This is where I need to dwell. This is what I need my mind on. And you saw God show up time and time again.

Kay >> Yes.

Claudia >> It’s a difficult world out there, has been difficult, and friendships have been upset over it. Churches have been divided over it. Country, city, state. It is not where we all want to stay, in that stress and anxious place. Right?

Kay >> That’s right. But we need to always keep our eyes on the fact that this is not permanent.

Claudia >> No.

Kay >> It’s not our permanent home and someday Jesus is going to return and all will be well. God is going to fix it all. All of these things that upset us, all the things that we deal with, will be gone. And we need to look ahead to that and the joy that we have before us, just as Jesus did as he faced the cross. The joy that’s before us knowing that we serve God well on this earth in the midst of all the things that we struggle with and all of the hardships we face—that should give us joy. That we want to serve him well despite what we’re going through, because we look ahead at the joy that’s ahead. The day when we see God and he says, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.”

Claudia >> One day.

Kay >> One day, one day. And for me, the day is getting pretty close just to see him. Not when Jesus returns. But you know what I’m saying?

Claudia >> Yes.

Kay >> Well, thank you, Claudia, for joining us.

I know that this will be a very beneficial conversation for a lot of people.

And so if you’re out there listening and it’s been that for you, I hope you share it with somebody else that you know is going through a hard time. I think it would beneficial.

Claudia >> Thank you for inviting me.

Kay >> Well, any time, you know that.

Let me mention some other resources that we have.

Nika Spaulding came on and had talked about joy also a few months ago from maybe a little bit more theological perspective, but then also a real practical perspective as well. So I would definitely suggest that you listen to that if you feel like you are seeking joy and that might give you some good ideas. If you go to our website, BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org to access that, and on the pulldown menu on Resources go to the Godly Living page, and you will find that there.

Also we have a study on the Psalms. If the idea of the Psalms captivates you and you’re thinking God might want you to spend some time in the Psalms this might be a good introduction because we go through just a few of various types of Psalms that God uses. Psalms that are just really Praise Psalms, it’s like our lives are going well and there’s no hint in the Psalms that there’s anything wrong. We are just so grateful to God and praising Him.

And then the Psalms of Lament, which we can really identify with when we’re going through times like Claudia has been through in the last five years. They give us words to pray when we are so sad and low that we don’t even know what to say. But the Psalms of lament can help us with that.

And then the Psalms that come after God answers those prayers are the third type of psalms that we look at in that study. So that might be something you’re interested in as well. So just wanted to mention those resources.

And of course you can browse our website at beyondordinarywomen.org and find resources for all sorts of situations and we hope that you will do that.

So thank you again. Claudia, and we will see you soon.